Meeting Dawkins
By Mark Vernon on Sunday, November 25 2007, 15:28 - Personal observations - Permalink

I met Richard Dawkins this morning, whilst taking part in the BBC's Big Questions TV programme. (I was on to talk about blasphemy, and it is worth noting that during it another guest, George Carey the former archbishop of Canterbury, called for the blasphemy laws to be repealed.
Dawkins was charming and rational, distinctly unlike the intolerant polemicist I felt I encountered in The God Delusion. The apparent disparity led me to suspect that he lets his written rhetoric run away with him. Perhaps he is not alone in that, as a polemicist. But take the issue of children being raised in a religious faith. In the book, Dawkins implies this is worse than child abuse which is about as strong as you can get. This morning, though, he argued that all he was complaining about was children being labeled Christian or Muslim, in the same way that you might be worried if a child was labeled Marxist or Humanist (he did himself make the last comparison!).
I'm not sure that children are ever labeled Christian, as opposed, say, to being raised in a Christian family. And indeed, two of the younger contributors to the programme explained how being raised in religious families actually taught them to question their faith. But I came away with the distinct feeling that in front of that mixed audience at least, Dawkins really thinks that child abuse is a greater crime. It was perhaps cathartic to write what he did, but isn't really defensible in public.
Whilst on the subject of militant atheists: by now, we have become used to them misrepresenting - presumably willfully - what it might be to have religious belief. It saddens me because it will only serve to perpetuate the diminishment of the debate about religion, and thus the risks of extremism. To individuals like AC Grayling polemical distortion appears to have become second nature (see here for a recent example). In fact, Grayling has adopted another tactic, that of claiming the ancient philosophical tradition as his/the atheist's own, on the basis that it was supposedly religion-free: ethics in antiquity was a purely philosophical matter, or some such, he often writes.
I am genuinely baffled by this (all comments gratefully received!). Even the pretty stridently atheistic Simon Blackburn in his Plato's Republic considers the religious interpretation of myths like that of the Cave. And any Plato scholar, which Blackburn admits he isn't, would tell you that Plato was religious in the sense of being an idealist who sought the transcendent in something akin to a beatific vision. He arguably thought of Socrates as a religious figure: in the Symposium Socrates is identified with the daimon Eros, a go-between to the gods.
Iris Murdoch explained what this means for his approach to ethics. It was primarily intuitive: it involved rational argument but not fundamentally so as to decide what to do but as a kind of spiritual exercise so that the individual might be awakened to, and orientated towards the good, that would draw them body, mind and spirit. To put it another way, the basic ethical question for Plato was what do you love? This is not the only way to think about ethics, of course. But as Murdoch says, conceived in this way, there is a deep affinity between religious feeling and ethical behaviour.










Comments
Mark, This reference gives a unique perspective on the Symposium, beatific vision TRANSCENDENTAL REALISM, and the question of who or what you love.
It is also features a shocking description of how the author perceives the current state of Humankind.
1. www.adidamla.org/newslett...
Plus this related reference is entirely and only about the agony of mortal love and the inevitable death of the Beloved. It is also a complete never-ending investigation of every possible dimension of human and cosmic existence.
An investigation which takes the participant on a journey that ultimately outshines the entire cosmic domain.
1. www.mummerybook.org
2. www.global.adidam.org/boo...
Plus on Transcendental Realism please check out:
1. www.adidabiennale.org
Hi Mark, From the picture I was afraid maybe Richard had "seen the light." But no. He's just "nicer" in person. Anyhow, about ancient philosophy and religion...Modern people often seem bewildered how morality could have any basis except in God's commands/preferences, and how life can be meaningful if there's no reuniting with God in the afterlife. So a personal Judeo-Christian God seems to them the very cornerstone of morality and value. I think it really is eye-opening to read the ancients, who don't see things that way. I think you can be an atheist (in our modern sense) and identify with the quasi-religious rapture in Plato. Perhaps that's why Grayling is claiming the ancients for atheists? But now I'll follow the link! Polemical distortion (and strong coffee) gets the day off to a good start... Jean
I can only assume that people who call Dawkins either strident or dogmatic simply haven't seen any of his programmes. At least you had the opportunity to apologise for portraying him as such in person. And you've mentioned how he is here in your site - more than some would do. But I'd have to say that I don't find what you find in "The God Delusion" -
Richard Dawkins had a reputation for being arrogant long before he wrote the God Delusion. A Professor (Abalone Farming expert) who met Dawkins several times confirmed this, but he didn't give any supporting evidence for it. Maybe Dawkins has mellowed over the years. As for Tony Grayling, he was one of the kindest people I knew. I remember he gave overnight shelter to a family of homeless hippies (two adults and a child) that we met in a cafe in Brighton once. The hippies gave us some transparent coloured sheets as a token payment in the morning. You could hold the plastic up to the light and see the world through rose-tinted spectacles. Ah, those were the days! Tony had an academic and whimsical manner then. He spent most of his time writing poetry. He never mentioned religion although it was tacitly agreed that we were atheists. In those days (despite hippiedom) it was difficult in some situations to say you were an atheist without some derision. Tony and I did however spend quite a lot of time questioning our sexuality and where to put it. It is interesting that it was OK to discuss our gender orientation, but we never bothered to question our atheism. In those days, Tony was always Tony. Nowadays he is called Anthony, probably for the same reason that Anthony Wedgwood Benn became Tony Benn. Tony Grayling needed to gain respect, while Tony Benn wanted to associate with the common man. Anyway, surely it is the writings of these philosophers that is important in these debates, not how charming they seem when you meet them.